They mentioned:
I think it is certainly a valid point that the "vast majority" of Muslims are not terrorists but that does not disprove the converse. Almost all of the current terrorism problem in the world is being caused by people who are Islamic. As a percentage of the entire Muslim world, a very *small* percentage, but if someone is a terrorist they are almost certainly Muslim.My Reply was this:
If you need "proof" that "a lot of terrorists are Islamic" then you have your head in the sand to a point where it is pointless to discuss this any farther. U.S.A. - Bombed by Muslims. Indonesia -- Bombed by Muslims. India -- Bombed by Muslims. Sudan -- Genocide by Muslims. Bosnia -- Genocide by Muslims. Kosovo -- Torn apart by Muslims. Chechnya -- War by Muslims. Philippines -- Rebellion by Muslims. Sri Lanka -- Rebellion by Muslims. UK -- bombed by Muslims. Spain -- bombed by Muslims. Germany -- bombing attempted by Muslims. Canada -- bombing attempted by Muslims. Reactions by Muslims worldwide when they hear of successes in these other places? Dancing in the streets and great ululation.
- If you have another label which fits them and somehow leaves out their religious commonality, I'm all for hearing it. Until such a moniker is found, "Islamic Radicals" is no less a fair term than calling the Branch Davidians "Christian Radicals", and certainly does not brand the entire religion as radical any more than describing something as "red paint" means that anything which is red is also paint. The only other likely modifier to "radicals" would be "Arab" but they aren't all Arab. Iran is Persian and Sudanese or Chechnyan Muslims aren't Arabs either.
- Admittedly, if Hugo Chavez joins them, we'll have to come up with a broader label. :-)
I guess what I don't understand at a higher level here is the rush to defend them and the rush to blame anyone but them. You both sound like defense law students arguing some academic case in a moot court. The fact is that they want us dead and tell us this every chance they get. They celebrate wildly at every success. Whether they have reason to hate me or not, I prefer to remain living. That makes them my enemy and yours, whether you know it or not--unless of course you're on their side.
If I'm wrong about all this, and you obviously believe that I am wrong, what is the alternative you are advocating? Worldwide dhimmitude, forced conversions by the millions and Taliban rule in America? Are you advocating that they will all shut up and become peaceful if we simply stop doing a certain thing? Aside from saying "USA=Bad" what are you suggesting should happen and what do you predict the result would be if you got your wish and we did what you require?
That was the most opinionated, politically wrong answer i have ever heard. But I'm glad at least you take a stand, a lot of people waver and oscillate but you, take a stand, Although IT is 100% wrong, i still enjoy that you take your stand.
1) China, by far, is the worlds biggest terrorist organization, They have the most Government regulated Deaths in the WORLD as well as RE EDUACTION for people who don't conform to their rule. Basically, you have all of your Basic freedoms taken away from you and you work for the betterment of the "group" when in reality it's the betterment of the Government and most of people are dirt poor.
Watch any documentry about china, read any book about in depth life in china, and do any College project about China, and you will find the underlying truth, IT is an oppressive government that enslaves its people and takes away BASIC human rights.
2)Besides china, we know for a fact that the Khmer Rouge was one of the most Barbaric Governments the world had ever seen. Al qeada is a pittance of an organization compared to the Khmer Rouge based on power, effect on people, and size.]
3) Soviet Russia, Killed about 20 MILLION of it's own people, that's 3 or 4 Jewish Halocausts. They were and always will be the Strongest, Most efficient, Terrorist organization the world has ever seen.
4) The drug trade in Central and South America. It isn't one single organized entity but it needs to be discussed. Millions of pounds of drugs get smuggled in the U.S and other countries through Central and south America. Nearly 80% of the murders in Southern california were Drug related and perpetrated by Gang members.
Here's more stats relating Drugs and California: http://www.dea.gov/pubs/states/california.html
Although you can't say it's all organized, you know that 100's of terrorist organizations, known as Gangs, smuggle, sell and extort people every single day, right in our backyard, and WE HAVE LITTLE EFFECT on it.
Why no one mentions the Drug trade in America and the 100's of terrorist gangs that profit from it is odd to me, but i definately see them as a threat, more so than any organization thousands of miles away, having hit us once, and even that is being questioned.
5) Al-Qaeda and Bin laden, Hardly killed 1/4th of any other contender listed here, not nearly as organized as them, and is slowly being removed from Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan, by American intervention.
If you need "proof" that "a lot of terrorists are Islamic" then you have your head in the sand to a point where it is pointless to discuss this any farther.
LOOK AT ABOVE ANSWER... They hardly leave a dent in our historical text books
Along with the Japanese, not so long ago, and look where the Japs are now. By the way we owe them 75 billion dollars, as a trade deficit. http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_viewpoints_tradetestimony
U.S.A. - Bombed by Muslims.
And guess what, the Japs killed more, i'm talking, HUGE amounts of Americans, and yet they stand Free now
Indonesia -- Bombed by Muslims.
Bombed by ALOT Of countries, besides Muslims, let's try THE U.S!
"1965 American-backed Genocide of the Indonesian People
Estimated civilian deaths: 500,000 - 1,000,000 people.
A complex series of events, involving a supposed coup attempt, a counter-coup, and perhaps a counter-counter-coup, with American fingerprints apparent at various points, resulted in the ouster from power of Sukarno and his replacement by a military coup led by General Suharto. The massacre that began immediately – of Communists, Communist sympathizers, suspected Communists, suspected Communist sympathizers, and none of the above – was called by the New York Times "one of the most savage mass slayings of modern political history." The estimates of the number killed in the course of a few years begin at half a million and go above a million.
It was later learned that the U.S. embassy had compiled lists of "Communist" operatives, from top echelons down to village cadres, as many as 5,000 names, and turned them over to the army, which then hunted those persons down and killed them. The Americans would then check off the names of those who had been killed or captured.
"It really was a big help to the army. They probably killed a lot of people, and I probably have a lot of blood on my hands," said one U.S. diplomat. "But that's not all bad. There's a time when you have to strike hard at a decisive moment. "
Added note: To this day, Indonesia's military and police forces continue to be one of America's best customers for weapons, training, and torture devices." ~~Taken from why they hate us article mentioned in thread
India -- Bombed by Muslims.
Agreed, but that was because of tensions between India and Pakistan and their seperation. Just like the Catholic/prodestant or English/Irish tensions that lead to deaths on both sides.
Remember, indians bombed Pakistan too, and there is blood on both hands. This is not a 1 sided problem. Both sides are at fault.
Sudan -- Genocide by Muslims.
BAD muslims, not good muslims, Being a muslim is very simple, just like being a Christan is. Say you believe in God and his messenger and you're in, explains the Big club. Christians on the other hand wish to take in the belief that Christ is their Lord and Savior, also a big club. That said, IF the U.S.A and ENGLAND both teamed up, they could easily fix this problem in 2 months, 1 YEAR max.
They stand by and let Poor people suffer, die in the hundreds, and they DON'T do a thing.
A person who allows a women to Get raped is just as Responsible as the person who is doing the Raping.
Right now Sudan's innocent people are being destroyed, and AMERICA AND ENGLAND, are allowing it to happen. This isn't a muslim problem, it's a Western problem, ALL western countries are to blame.
Bosnia -- Genocide by Muslims.
What are you talking about, Christians, slavs, croats, and Russians WERE ALL INVOLVED, it wasn't Muslims that started the tensions in Bosnia, it was the Serbs, everyone is at fault by CLEARLY the serbs. This was obviously filtered information someone gave you, that frankly isn't the truth, The muslims were just in Bosnia, at the wrong place and time when the war erupted they had little to do with the tensions that actually fueled and enflamed the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_war
Kosovo -- Torn apart by Muslims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_war
Again, do some more reading, Kosovo was another Serbian Nationalistic Problem. I'm sure if one muslim were in the vietnam war you would probably say it was a Muslim war as well..... i mean i'm really seeing a pattern here, a pattern of mis information
Chechnya -- War by Muslims.
Chechnya.... yes chechnya, sounds alot like the last 2, but which war do you mean? There are 3 wars, the first second and third. In all three muslmis weren't to blame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechnya_War
You can blame Russia for destroying that region, not the muslims. Again, a pattern of Misinformation.
Philippines -- Rebellion by Muslims.
And tell me what is wrong with a rebellion? Does that make someone evil?
To tell you the truth, i rebbelled about my right to vote when they tried to replace paper ballots with Diebolt machines in Southern California. How much destructions did the muslims cause in the phillipines? How many people died? Did anyone die?
Check the numbers and get back to me on how that was a SEVERE muslim problem.
Did you know the phillipines has one of the Largest Christain Majorities on Earth? Even larger than America?
And guess what the majority of those that cause problems are christians. Does that mean that christains are bad?
Sri Lanka -- Rebellion by Muslims.
See above response, and again Sri lanka has had a lot of problems with Indians too, not just muslims.
UK -- bombed by Muslims.
The Germans have caused 1 million times more damage than ANY muslim has EVER done. Does that make Germany a Destructive state? Is germany evil? They unleashed THOUSANDS of bombs on the U.K, this wasn't even that long ago, why is your mind so closed minded? Obviously the facts state that Christians have done more damage to the U.k, Therefore christians are all at fault, and they have a demonic religeon. Bad assumption right? Exactly my point, you also have a bad asumption. Historically muslims barely caused a Dent to the U.K.
Spain -- bombed by Muslims.
Agreed, but just as many deaths were caused by Christians.
Germany -- bombing attempted by Muslims.
I bet EVERY single RACE, RELIGEON, and CREED has tried to bomb Germany, for whatever crazy reasons they may have had. WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Religion has no standing whatsoever here. The Neo Nazis have caused more trouble there than ANY muslims have.
Canada -- bombing attempted by Muslims.
Read last post... same issue, Christians have done more damage to Canada than muslims ever have.
Again, filtered glasses, take them off please.
Reactions by Muslims worldwide when they hear of successes in these other places? Dancing in the streets and great ululationThat is by far the most false statement on here. I'd like you to show me that a Vast majority of muslims were happy when they saw the terroist attacks. Please show me, i'm waiting. Literally EVERY muslim i know hated seeing them and detested them. It made all of them look bad and made us look even worse reporting that they were happy.
So you see one video of people in Saudi arabia dancing around like fools, guess what, Saudia arabia is a poor, bunch of un educated, enslaved people, and you assume almost 2 BILLION Muslims worldwide are Happy.
I really don't know what to say to this.... it's wrong at all aspects, and if you truly believe it, Proove it, show me where 2 billion People worldwide enjoyed watching it.
Even the Good muslims you mentioned in your first sentence, whom you YOURSELF said were the majority, would not be happy.
I see some conflictions in your statements.
If you have another label which fits them and somehow leaves out their religious commonality, I'm all for hearing it. Until such a moniker is found, "Islamic Radicals" is no less a fair term than calling the Branch Davidians "Christian Radicals", and certainly does not brand the entire religion as radical any more than describing something as "red paint" means that anything which is red is also paint. The only other likely modifier to "radicals" would be "Arab" but they aren't all Arab. Iran is Persian and Sudanese or Chechnyan Muslims aren't Arabs either.Gee, you know what, alot of people don't even like calling them Muslims because they are as far from it as you can get. Sure they meet the minimum requirements, they believe in a God and that Muhammad was his prophet.
Admittedly, if Hugo Chavez joins them, we'll have to come up with a broader label. :-)
I'm sure the KKK also fit the Minimum Christian guidlines, but they are NEVER CALLED Christians, or even christian extremists.
So you want a wider term that includes everyone, even hugo chavez.
I got it right here, Terrorist!
Try that next time.
I guess what I don't understand at a higher level here is the rush to defend them and the rush to blame anyone but them. You both sound like defense law students arguing some academic case in a moot court. The fact is that they want us dead and tell us this every chance they get. They celebrate wildly at every success. Whether they have reason to hate me or not, I prefer to remain living. That makes them my enemy and yours, whether you know it or not--unless of course you're on their side.The japanese wanted us all dead, the Germans wanted us all dead, the Crusades wanted all muslms dead. They all rejoiced, WHAT is your point? In historical time, the Muslims have caused far less damage to the world than Christianity has, why isn't anyone pointing a finger at them, You know why? Because we understand christans are mainly good people, they help the world, and they arn't to blame if wackoos go nuts and kill in their name.
If I'm wrong about all this, and you obviously believe that I am wrong, what is the alternative you are advocating? Worldwide dhimmitude, forced conversions by the millions and Taliban rule in America? Are you advocating that they will all shut up and become peaceful if we simply stop doing a certain thing? Aside from saying "USA=Bad" what are you suggesting should happen and what do you predict the result would be if you got your wish and we did what you require?I'm advocating, not mentioning religeon, it is INSIGNIFICANT, they fight for their so called religeon, but so have Christians and they are #1, numero uno, on the list of overall Deaths, killings, and terrorist attacks in their name. The church went as far as having a HOLY WAR to exterminate all muslims from Jerusalem. Do not say Muslim Extremist, Do not say Christian Extremist, Do not say Jewish or Hindu Extremist.
All i want said is, Terrorist. It is unfair to blame one religion and i think I've widely proved that over this discussion.
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That is the most puzzling answer I've ever heard and it sounds as if you have been getting your info filtered to you from outside sources.
I'd recommend using the internet alot more, when searching for info.
No more T.V, CNN, Fox news, MSNBC, or ABC.
Listen to them if you like, but go find the information by yourself, don't let them Spoon feed you their Bias.
And i hope you liked my comments i added to your quote, i mean alot of your points were dead wrong, not in just my opinion, but factually wrong.
Hope everyone has been enlightened by this Long and Grueling post that took me a while to do.
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